BMF Rooting For Madoff vs Wilpons

That headline doesn’t really make sense but I sorta like the way “rooting for Madoff” rolls off your tongue.

In actuality I’m rooting for the $1 Billion lawsuit to bring down the Wilpons and force them to sell the Mets.

It sounds crazy to be rooting against your owners but I gotta say every single Met fan I’ve spoken to since this ugliness broke is hoping for the exact same thing.

I believe there are 2 main reasons for this wickedly negative sentiment:

• FIRST: No one trusts Jeff Wilpon to be the sole majority owner of this team. 

You gotta respect Fred, he’s a self-made man and I’ve always seen him as a respectable guy –although not so much anymore. But at least Fred keeps Jeff in check. I’ve heard some employees speculate that Jeff had aspirations to be GM — yikes!

Unfortunately once Fred is dead and the silver spoon Jeff, who’s accomplished nothing on his own, will have no one to answer to and will likely run the organization (even more) into the ground. 

• SECOND: This ponzi business all smells so dirty. The more that comes out the more it looks like the Wilpons knew they were complicit in some wrong doing. 

The NYT reported Fred was angered by Saul Katz saying “no one knows how he does it!” regarding Madoff’s returns. 

Y’know I might give them the benefit of the doubt if this was the first ponzi scheme they were caught up in but it wasn’t — it was the Wilpons SECOND time investing in some crooks ponzi scheme. 

Seriously who gets ponzi’ed TWICE?!?

If you’ve already been through a ponzi wouldn’t you be suspicious if you were getting ridiculous returns and “no one knows how he did it”???

I’m point blank not buying that the Wilpons weren’t aware something was wrong. They may not have known exactly what was up but if they didn’t know something was amiss they’re such horrible business men they don’t deserve to own a team.

15 Responses to “BMF Rooting For Madoff vs Wilpons”

  1. Paul Says:

    No matter what happens, it seems like it’s going to be a long, ugly process. I hope that if the Wilpons are forced to sell the majority stake that we get better owners this time.

  2. USMF Says:

    Becarefull what you wish for…

    North Stars fans thought that Norman Green was gonna be a great owner.

    Red McCombs was supposed to push the Vikings over the top…now Vike fans are lucky that the team didn’t move to Cali.

    Daniel Snyder was supposed to be the man when he took over the Redskins.

    Dolan has done wonders with the Knicks and Rangers.

    Islanders have completely turned around with Charles Wang right?

    Many people think it would be great to own a franchise, but have know idea how to do it. At least Fred wants to win, invests a ton of money on the team and has control of the Mets and SNY. If he has to sell, you have know idea how it’s gonna break down. SNY will make money, but will the owners of SNY spend that on the Mets? The Mets will always make money, winning doesn’t matter…what makes you think that a new owner wouldn’t run the team like the Pirates?

    I can’t believe how easily you guys want to throw Fred under the bus. You’re basing your opinions on BS and hearsay put out (despite a court order not to) from complete dirt bag Picard.

    If the Wilpons knew something wasn’t right with Madoff, I don’t think they’d wrap so much of their business with him. Fred has always had a very good reputation as a smart and honest businessman.

    I don’t think the Wilpon’s should be taken completely off the hook, but to be sued for more than they’re worth is ridiculous. If the SIPC, severial large brokerage houses and hundreds of wealthy business and families all thought Madoff was legit, why should Fred?

    SIPC is going hard after Wilpon to cover their f**k Up by not catching Madoff sooner and protecting the investors like they should of.

  3. Matt the Met Fan Says:

    USMF

    I agree with you on one thing ..all I need is Dolan to come in to buy the Mets and this situation becomes even worse!

    But dude .. read the Times ..How could Wilpon not have known? .. and remember with that money Sterling Equities built their empire .. I am as shocked as you are - thinking Wilpon is an honorable man … but he isn’t dumb .. and to think he didn’t know ??

    Like the kid that found out about Joe Jackson .. and asked “Say it aint so Joe ..” .. say it aint so Fred - ok doesn’t rhyme but applies ..

  4. Jeff Says:

    Oy, vey… but I gotta agree with the idea of our Mets needing new ownership. How the hell are the Wilpons going to “manage” getting through all this when they’ve clearly mismanaged themselves into such a ridiculous corner?

  5. Fort Greene Met Fan Says:

    Listen, if the Mets had been better managed and ahem, WON ANYTHING since 2002 when they bough Doubleday out—ok, forget won, how about NOT collapsed 4 times in a row—I think the Wilpons would have more fans on their side.

    But many fans have been begging for new ownership for years—this is just the last nail in the coffin of good faith in the Wilpons.

    Of course you never know what a new owner would bring. But how much worse can it get than (in no particular order):

    -4 collapses
    -2 Ponzi schemes
    -rampant injuries and bad medical decisions
    -rape allegations
    -late night car accidents
    -Bernazard antics
    -Radomski selling steroids from the clubhouse
    -Samuels betting on games from the clubhouse
    -K-Rod punching his father in law IN the clubhouse hallway
    -terrible decisions re: OP, Castillo, etc
    -a new stadium that most fans don’t even like
    -crappy ticket sales
    -a bad product on the field
    -3 managers in as many years

    Among many, many other things that have led most fans to believe that the Wilpons are not the end-all be-all in ownership.

    I personally don’t HATE them, as I said yesterday—but I am seriously ready for more baseball, les drama. And where there’s Wilpons, there’s drama.

  6. Fort Greene Met Fan Says:

    (I’m not including 2006 because for me that was the most disappointing season of all during this period)

  7. USMF Says:

    Yeah, I’ve read the Times…you gotta read more than that too… The Times has an agenda like everyone else.

    You really gotta look big picture to see whats going on here.

    The SIPC (Securities Investor Protection Corporation) is supposed to protect people from financial harm. SIPC (created by congress) is supposed provide coverage up to $500,000 of the customer’s net equity balance of investment registered with the SEC.

    Now the SEC (a federal program) was tipped to Madoff several times going back to the early 90’s. Each time they spent millions and couldn’t find anything wrong.

    They now have admitted that they are not qualified to investigate Ponzi schemes and never did a “through examination or investigation of Madoff for operating a Ponzi scheme and that had such a proper examination or investigation been conducted, the SEC would have been able to uncover the fraud.”

    In 08, the SEC went outside the agency and consulted with experts to investigate potential Ponzi schemes. They found 68 out of 677 Ponzi schemes reported are true and believe that for every “documented” scheme, there are potential 10 more undocumented.

    According to H. David Kotz (Inspector General of the SEC) “Although the SEC is stepping up its enforcement of Ponzi schemes due the public pressure from its failed Madoff investigations, it does not have the tools or the budget to stop these sophisticated frauds”

    OK, so what does this mean? It means that one Federal Agency whose job it is to protect inverters couldn’t (and can’t) do their job…the 2nd Federally created agency, who depends on the other to do their job, can’t afford to pay the inverters because neither know how to identify Ponzi Schemes nor they have the money to backup the insurance the SIPC is supposed to provide.

    So now the SIPC brought in Picard to cover their (and the SEC) asses for not doing what the Feds created them to do.

    Now Picard is going after the several brokerage houses that cycled money in and out of Madoff on a daily basis for 30 years. The problem is, he’s got miles of paper trails to go through to find the money which will take years and he’ll probably only find a small percent. And we all know that the Fed won’t let any brokerage house or bank fail, so these guys are gonna let off pretty easy.

    Now the Times (or most other media groups) aren’t talking about the dozen or so other major investors that Picard is going after too. Now these other “investors” make Wilpons activity look like chum change. These guys were dealing in the Billions and getting 30%-400% returns and pulling large sums of cash to off seas banks.

    So why is Freddy on the front page? Because he is a well know figure in NY (Media Central) and Picard knows that focusing the news on Wilpon will distract everyone from the SEC/SIPC failures and keep people from knowing how much of “our” money our local brokerage firms and banks had rolled into Madoff.

    If Fred suspected something wrong ion the past, what was he supposed to do (legally or ethically) Turn Madoff in and implode his whole fortune? Take all his money out and walk away, and then maybe rat out Madoff? If Wilpon suspected something was up, I’d expect him to slowly move all his money away from Madoff. Instead, Fred kept cycling money in and out like he’s always done. But now Picard and the SIPC are re-writing the rules so they can take down whomever they want to repay the “victims” after they line their pockets with about $90mil.

    Everyone did or had to suspect that Madoff was up to something, but nobody could (or wanted to) find wrong doing. While Wilpon may not be completely ignorant of what was happening, he’s been unfairly turned into the media scape goat for the whole mess.

    It’s sad you guys are killing ol’ Freddy boy biased on just what the Times says…

  8. Matt the Met Fan Says:

    USMF

    so much respect for you and your opinion .. you know that but sad…?? sad is the awesome loyalty you have twds Fred

    dude .. in Journalism school we used to talk about stories that “had legs” .. meaning keep following it and let it play out .. nobody is saying Picard and SIPC isn’t chasing the horse after it left the barn but this doesn’t mean that Fred and Saul didn’t know and profit from what they knew.. it is looking more and more like it was a criminal act (s)

    Read what Ft Greene and BMF wrote : TWO Ponzi schemes? come on dude . .. and believe it or not I personally know people who passed on Madoff - in fact Boomer Esiason was saying how he was approached by Madoff (Long Island connection) in the 80’s and he passed b/c his financial guy told him it was a scam .. once again , the act is bad ..but the lies are worse .. Scape goat? you really think Fred is totally innocent?

    Can the Mets operate despite all this? of course.. Texas was operated by MLB last year but come clean now .. settle the Civic case .. stand up and stop hiding ..

    Fred W = Nixon
    Jeff W = Agnew
    Saul Katz = Haldeman / Ehrlichman

  9. Omar Minaya Says:

    Hey FGMF:

    Thanks for writing my resume for me, but you left out some things:

    – losing the 40 year Norfolk (Tidewater) AAA relationship.

    – signing 48 year old Julio Franco for two years the same offseason I let Chad Bradford turn us down for the Orioles

    – Jose Lima, Guillermo Mota, etc.

    – the garish in-game experience (that’s Jeffy’s fault)

    – the inactivity during umpteem trading deadlines (I was hiding under my desk)

    – ‘gangsta’ manuel. nuff said

    – letting ‘the situation’ throw out the first pitch at a spring training game (also Jeffy?)

  10. USMF Says:

    MtMF…it’s not so much being loyal to anybody…I really don’t care about what happens to Fred, I only care about what happens to the Mets. I do worry that SNY and the Mets are gonna get chopped up and divided and non of the profits will get reinvested.

    It does kill me how easily many are so quick to pass judgment without stepping back and really looking at whats going on.

    If you read what I wrote, you’d see that the SEC admitted that there are probably close to 700 Ponzi schemes currently out there. When you got a company like Sterling that doesn’t actually produce a product, you got to make money by investing and reinvesting. So odds are, Sterling will get caught up with a scheme every so often. Especially when it looks like most brokerage houses and banks get caught in it too…most never ever realize it.

    If Madoff was such a transparent scam, then that proves that everyone who lost should have known better and should get nothing. In fact, arrest Boomer and his financial guy…they knew it was a scam and did nothing!

    In fact, even the WSJ did a story on Madoff in the 90’s on what a genius he was by playing the system to make money.

    As far as FGMF’s list…I only remember two collapses, and many of the other hits can be said of almost any Pro franchise at one point or another. Bad times are here now…but they could be worse. Things weren’t too great in the mid-90’s with Doubleday around…but I guess that’s all Freds fault too…

    We can debate Freds knowledge of what Madoff was doing…we can debate what Fred should have done legally if he knew and even debate how much financial responsibility Fred has to the Victims…

    But you really need to take a step back and not look at this thing as a fan and see what game the SIPC and Picard is playing.

    Remember Fred was trying to settle with Picard, but Picard wanted more than Fred made in profits…as soon as Fred started resisting, Picrad started leaking info to the Press to make Wilpon look bad.

    Is Fred innocent? shades of gray… but he probably he probably didn’t want to know what was going on.

    Is forcing Fred to sell the team the best thing for this franchise? that’s not as easy an answer as it sounds…

    Is Picard making a public example out of Fred to get what he wants? Absolutely.

  11. Omar Minaya Says:

    USMF - you make a lot of great points. I shudder to think that Irving Picard can come after people like that.

    However, Fred Wilpon has to go. He has destroyed the team I love. I endured all of the dark periods but something about the minaya era put me over the edge. I actually hate the Mets in their current form and I felt that way before the Madoff news broke.

    So, I want Fred out and I will take the risk that the Dolans or someone as bad buys us because, with Fred running things and Jeff set to take over, I believe with 100% conviction that I have seen my last WS victory by this team - and I’m not even 50.

    So, yes, Irving Picard is playing nasty and Fred doesn’t deserve this and I wouldn’t want it happening to be, but…..

    I just want Fred and Jeff gone, even if it takes Picard’s smear campaign. They weren’t satisfied with the Phillips/Howe/Mo Vaughan circus - they had to give us the Omar/Gangster humiliation, which was disturbing, infuriating, humiliating, and a trauma of such proportion that fans like me, who literally learned to love this team on Dad’s knee in the Rheingold days, now detest it.

    Go, Irving, go. You’re a dirtbag, but you’re OUR dirtbag.

  12. Fort Greene Met Fan Says:

    I don’t know whether Fred et al are guilty—that’s what court is for. But when it comes to the team, its quality, evolution and performance SINCE the Wilpons have been in total control…it ain’t impressive. In fact, if I did a crap job like that for hundreds of millions of dollars with nothing to show—I’d not only be out of that job, I’d be chased by angry fans with torches.

  13. Fort Greene Met Fan Says:

    JOSE LIMA. That says it all…

  14. USMF Says:

    Irving is not our dirt bag…he’s the tool of the Feds and the Feds have destroyed our country. He doesn’t care about you or the Mets. He’s protecting corrupt Federal agency and lining his pockets while he’s at it.

    Fred’s biggest problem is he’s loyal to a fault.

    Odds are, Picards gonna cripple Wilpon and Sterling Enterprises. Wilpon is gonna have to sell a big portion of SNY and the Mets. Nobody is going to buy a minority share of the Mets and be a silent partner.

    Best bet is, whoever buys in keeps Jeffy at bay and lets the new management create a winning franchise while SNY is still a Mets asset that feeds payroll.

    There is a good chance that MLB will bail out the Mets and nothing will change.

    Worst bet is, Fred will have to sell a large part of the team to someone who only wants to make money and isn’t interested in creating a winning product or has no idea how to do it. Sadly, MLB is full of owners that fit that description.

  15. Florida Met Fan Rich Says:

    5 Days for the “Normal Teams”for Pitchers n and catchers to report….

    Since we are acaught up in “Ponzi Scemes” we will be arrving 2 days later!

    Woo Hoo !

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