White Noise from the BX

BMF has made a very pointed, point to avoid all media coverage of Mariano’s record breaking save.

I should be more mature, I suppose. I should act like an adult, I guess. But if there’s one thing I hold dear to my heart - it’s an unbridled hatred of anything Yankee.

I hate their team, owners, fair weather, front runner, out of town just moved to the upper east side suddenly became an obnoxious yankee fans, players, world series crowns, records, no-hitters, stadium dimentions…. Blah, blah, blah…

Another Yankee record/milestone? 

Leave me alone!

34 Responses to “White Noise from the BX”

  1. BrooklynBill Says:

    Screw the friggin’ Skanks.

    Any else alarmed by this?

    Since June 30th: Jose Reyes has 6 SBs (for fun Tejada has 4).

    I know he’s had the balky hammy but, is this what should be expected of Reyes in the future? The SB is such a big part of his game - if he’s not swiping bags, what’s he worth?

    Perhaps his agent told him to shut it down…not worth risking an injury and hurting your big pay day just to get yourself into scoring position for the team that pays you now? Say it ain’t so…

  2. Florida Met Fan Rich Says:

    I think he is playing about 75%…He can not afford to get hurt again this year!..It will cost him to much money!

    Do you think he really cares about winning these nothing games?….He is fully focusing on his free agency

    I don’t think the Mets are really going to make a serious run to get him!

  3. ProfessorReyes Says:

    One of my fave Shmooze monologues ever (skip the first 1:15 to avoid the LL GS):
    newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/08/12/somers-monologue-has-father-time-caught-up-with-mariano-rivera/

  4. ProfessorReyes Says:

    I think it’s a combo of the legs getting worse since he came back, wearing sleeves on both legs every game, needing daily massages and treatments, and Collins protecting the investment. In other words, I don’t think he CAN go 100% at this point.

  5. Luis Says:

    I think the Mets will let him go AND trade Wright and try and start all over-Not saying I agree(or disagree)-Just thinking this is what they will do-If they can find a middle inf who can hit(Ian Desmond?-move to second and put Tejada at SS))

  6. BlondiesJake Says:

    Luis, they might let Reyes go, but why would they then deal Wright? I understand money, but that would mean both faces of the franchise would be gone. Exactly who would the fans come to see next year? I think the possibility of this happening is about 1%, which of course scares me since the Mets tend to do the worst possible thing most of the time.

  7. BlondiesJake Says:

    Had dinner with A Phanatic at Soup’s Sports Grill in Woodland Hills, CA last night. He started to talk smack about the Phillies so I said Hawpe!

  8. Lord Charles Says:

    The only good thing about the idea of the Mets losing Reyes and trading Wright, is the we would no longer have to hear that they are chokers and the Mets will never win with them. Of course that will only last a month until Ike Davis and someone else become the target of fans ire.

    I’ll be honest, these playoff won’t end soon enough for me. While I generally like watching playoff baseball, even without the Mets in it, the amount of unsubstantiated speculation over what the Mets will or won’t do is going to go to absurd levels over the next 6 weeks (if it is not there already). Whether he stays or leaves, at least once the decision is made we will be able to move on.

  9. Lord Charles Says:

    And what is sort of sad about all this Reyes speculation, and I admit to being as much a part of as anyone, is that I am growing so tired of it that it almost makes me want him to leave just to be completely over it. I realize that that is the classic, “throwing the baby out with the bath water, ” but that phrase exists for a reason…

  10. Patrick Says:

    Amen, Amen, Amen! Sick of it as well BMF!

  11. Florida Met Fan Rich Says:

    Are there any compelling reasons why Jose would want to stay with the Mets?

    Has anybody ever thought of that!….I can’t think of one.

  12. USMF Says:

    Jose has said that he loves it here and he’s moved his whole family to Long Island (I believe)…I think if the Mets make him a legit/competitive offer, he’ll stay…I’m just not sure we know what a legit/competitive offer would be…and I don’t think anyone will know until offers are made…I’m not sure if Sandy is gonna wait that long.

    BB, you’re comparing Reyes to Tejada? Really?

    As for the Saves Record thing…I say great job by Rivera…it’s a nice attachment to accomplish, most closers burn out very quickly, while Mo has done it for 1.5 decades. Nicely done.

    But lets ease off on the “Greatest Closer of all Time” and even the “Greatest pitcher of all time” talk.

    Yes, Rivera is the “greatest closer of all time”, but that’s like saying “Greatest DH’er of all time”…We’re talking about a role that has only really existed (in it’s current form) for about 20 years…before that, you didn’t have a “9th inning, three run lead closer position” There once was a time that “closers” pitched more than one inning and with small leads or big leads, sometimes they didn’t even pitch the 9th, they might be needed in the 7th when the game was really on the line.

    Imagine if Fingers had to only pitch the 9th inning? He would have thought you were crazy!

    As for best closer of all time, imagine if Eckersley or Smoltz pitched their whole careers as a closer? or wait, they didn’t because they were pitchers who could start games unlike Mo, who could only close…

    So…nice attachment, but put in proper perspective, it’s more about Mo pitching in the right era on a team that gave him plenty of opportunities over how “great” Mo is as a pitcher…

  13. IrishMike Says:

    USMF - agree on Mo. He is the greatest closer of all time but not necessarily the greatest reliever of all time which is a much more inclusive category. He has gotten the occasional five or six out save so maybe he could have consistently but was rarely asked to do so. He is in the conversation for greatest reliever of all time but by no means does his save record prove that he is. Fingers, Gossage, Sutter and a few others all have legit claims to the title.

    As for those who are trying to call him one of the greatest pitchers of all time - give me a break!

  14. A Phanatic Says:

    I was in the Valley!

  15. ProfessorReyes Says:

    And the oscar goes to Deon Grant

  16. Lord Charles Says:

    “He is in the conversation for greatest reliever of all time but by no means does his save record prove that he is.”

    Agreed, but his other numbers do. Amongst Fingers, Gossage, Sutter, Hoffman, Smith and Eckersley, Rivera ranks in the following categories are:

    K/9: 4th
    BB/9: 2nd
    HR/9: 1st
    BABIP: 1st
    LOB%: 1st
    ERA: 1st (by a lot)
    FIP: 1st
    WAR: 1st (by almost 9 wins)

    Pretty easy argument to make for Rivera being the best reliever ever, even if you ignore his post-season numbers.

  17. Lord Charles Says:

    What is interesting, is in looking at that group, and adding Billy Wagner, a pretty solid argument can be made that Wags is right there in the conversation for #2. His ranks would be:

    K/9: 1st (by more than 2.5)
    BB/9: 6th
    HR/9: 5th
    BABIP: 2nd
    LOB%: 1st
    ERA: 2nd (by a lot)
    FIP: 2nd
    WAR: 4th

    What kills Wags, as most Mets fans know, are the BB and HR numbers…

  18. BrooklynBill Says:

    USMF - check out the #s when Reyes was 21 vs Tejada’s! of course they are not the same caliber of player, but it’s interesting. To me, Tejada is perfectly serviceable & has great potential.

    I think the big question for Sandy & co. is do they think Reye’s hammy is a random 2011 nuisance or as he approaches 30, is this the beginning of an ongoing, chronic problem that limits his range, his base stealing abilities, his triples, and even his ABs due to lost playing time.

    My money, I don’t take that chance. Not when I have alternatives and a bunch of other holes I need to fill to field a winning team.

  19. BrooklynBill Says:

    Let the Skanks have their moment with Rivera…not like they are going deep into the playoffs with their sorry excuse for a starting rotation.

  20. IrishMike Says:

    LC your numbers don’t tell the whole story (as I’m sure you know). Modern day closers are given a much easier role and have a much easier chance to rack up those nice numbers because they don’t pitch as much and they don’t (or rarely) enter games in a high stakes mid-inning situation.

    Since becoming a “closer” Rivera has pitched 80 innings in only one season. Same for Wagner. Meanwhile Fingers hit totals like 126, 134, 132 and Gossage 141, 133, 134 and both had other 100+ IP seasons. They have 500 and 600 more career IP’s than Rivera. The more innings you pitch, the more times you go back to back with multi-inning appearances etc. the harder it will be to keep your ERA down, your K/9 up etc.

    It’s just different now which is not Mo’s fault but the best reliever argument has a lot of variables to consider.

  21. Lord Charles Says:

    “They have 500 and 600 more career IP’s than Rivera.”

    That’s not correct. Gossage has 291.1 more IP than Rivera, Smith has 93.1 more, and Fingers has 21.1 more, and Sutter has 107 less IP.

    While agree that there is a difference in era’s, if that argument is going to be used against Rivera, then he also has to be given credit for pitching in an era of much more prolific offenses then we saw in the 70’s and 80’s.

  22. Lord Charles Says:

    Should note, all numbers are as a reliever, because that is what the discussion is. If we are talking about best pitcher, it is irrelevant, because I agree, none of these guys are in the conversation.

  23. IrishMike Says:

    “They have 500 and 600 more career IP’s than Rivera.”

    “That’s not correct.”

    As written my statement is 100% correct (okay 492 for Fingers).

    Regular season career IP’s from baseball-reference:

    Gossage - 1,809
    Fingers - 1,701
    Rivera - 1,209

    Fingers and Gossage pitched those innings. You say you are only counting relief innings. Did you do the same when comparing K/9, LOB%, ERA etc. for the three of them?

    I’m not arguing Smith and Sutter.

  24. Lord Charles Says:

    “Did you do the same when comparing K/9, LOB%, ERA etc. for the three of them? ”

    Yes.

  25. Lord Charles Says:

    BTW, I am a lot of things, but I am not the type of person who would exclude data for one reason (compare IP) and then sneak it back in to compare other stats (K/9, LOB%, ERA etc.). Picking and choosing stats is one thing; manipulating data is vile.

  26. IrishMike Says:

    Got it. I actually think Rivera is the GROAT* but like you I value accurate and comparable information.

    * but it’s close.

  27. IrishMike Says:

    LC - last post written before your follow-up. I assumed that if you didn’t go relief only on the first set of stats it’s because the conversation was meandering not to obsure or manipulate - you don’t do that. If I’m in the mood for cherry picked, manipulated stats I’ll wait for a post from BrooklynBill.

  28. Lord Charles Says:

    I just hope he is an actual “goat” this fall!

    (Though I have to admit, Rivera falls into the Bernie Williams category of Yankees: guys I root against only because they are wearing Pinstripes.)

  29. Lord Charles Says:

    No worries, IM. Just wanted to make sure things were clear. Also should give Fangraphs some dap at this point. They make it very easy to sort out stats like that.

  30. USMF Says:

    Sure, we can all cherry pick stats to prove one thing over the other…we could easily make an argument that John Franco is one of the best relievers of all time…

    he’s 4th all time in saves 975K 2.89ERA w/90 wins

    but even if you forget the past few years of his career that he sucked, keep in mind that the beginning of his career was before the closer was a 3run 3out job…his numbers are pretty damn good. But that doesn’t make him a great reliever….he’ll never be considered for HOF…

    What does Franco have to do with Rivera…not much, but why is Franco an after thought but Mo an auto HOFer and one of the “best pitchers of all time”?

    It’s like trying to argue who the best HR hitter is of all time…instead of who the best HR was from each era.

    I give Mo tons of credit for being able to do something that one other guy of this era was able to stay healthy and consistent enough to do. Only five guys have reached more than 400 saves…(sure two of them only pitched part of their careers in the 3n3 closer role) but it’s still a nice (but not great) stat.

  31. AJW Says:

    Who is the all time leader in holds?

  32. BrooklynBill Says:

    That’s the problem with stats…you can manipulate the #s in lots of ways and agents do it all the time to bid up their clients.

    IM - Is it still bothering you that Tejada’s avg w/ RISP is about 50 pts higher than Reyes?

  33. BlondiesJake Says:

    IM, LC, tdfkabl, just ignore him and eventually he will go away. Or argue with him when he cherry picks or manipulates stats even though he won’t admit he’s wrong. I’m fine either way, but like Maverick when he freaks after the flat spin out to sea, I’m no longer engaging.

  34. Jomama Says:

    Hate the Tankees

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